Wednesday, March 25, 2009

Wolf Block is dead!!!

Well, one major Philadelphia legal institution for the past 106 years passed away. Wolf block voted to disband the other day. The reasons that have been put forward are: mergers and acquisitions, structured finance or real estate focused practice; the economic recession; the current credit crunch; and oh, the fact that the partners did not want to stand behind their own firm. One report I read indicated that a large part of this was that not very many of the partners wanted to personally ensure the line of credit that they needed to take out for operating expenses, and that they were upset that profits were down so the partners only made $321,000 on average in 2008 (Down from $400,000 in 2007).

Some Links:
Philly Inquirer--Wolf Block Lawyers Face Difficult Job-hunting Climate

Philly Daily News--Wolf Block Lawyers Left Only With Fond Memories


Legal Intelligencer--No Easy Answers in Wolf Block's Demise

Legal Intelligencer--Credit Woes, Failed Merger Bids Take Toll on Wolf Block

Wall Street Journal--Wolf Block to Dissolve Philadelphia Law Firm

Business Journal--Wolf Block law firm to dissolve

The thing is that I believe that many firms large and small do not get the concept that there needs to be at least a vague semblance of a pyramidal structure of leadership. The fact is that most firms, even those mega firms like Dechert are too top heavy. There are too many partners and equity partners and not enough accountability. When you have too many partners, you can not get them to all agree on anything, and in fact you are likely to have many of them making more conservative moves without their names on the door or their own personal money invested. The partners will rarely put themselves out of work, and you can be sure that all of the partners from this dissolution will end up somewhere else. The young attorneys will be scrambling, and I wouldn't be surprised to see some of them on contract jobs in the future.

As far as why you should be concerned. While I have not heard of Wolf Block hiring any contractors in the last five years (so we are not really losing a contract employer), as I just mentioned, there are that many other lawyers out there looking for work. Will they deign to do contract work? In this economy, probably. Will they be able to find associate or partner positions? It sounds like many are already lining up these positions, but of course that means any contractor looking for an associate position is going to find it that much harder to find one. And with some firms already delaying first year start dates, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that offers are rescinded putting more recent grads in the desperate position of needing to work anywhere. Also, don't forget that many firms suffer from a top heavy management structure, and layoffs at major firms have been touching all levels. A dissolution could happen to any firm in the near future, even Pepper Hamilton, Morgan Lewis, or Dechert. So even those of you who have been contracting at those places for years, are not necessarily safe (and certainly less safe than the associates or partners).

For those of you who would use this to point out that contracting is just as secure as any other job out there, think again. If you are an associate somewhere, even if all you have ever done is Document Review work, you are perceived to have a skill set, as a contractor you are not. As an associate, even in situations like this you are entitled to certain benefits, or portions thereof, as a contractor you are entitled to nothing. As a contractor, you will likely be the first one out on the street, and the last one to be hired by a new firm. There is more job security as a full-time employee, and a recognized skill set that comes along with the position which makes you more mobile when it comes to looking for new employment.

Contract attorneys actually do have a skill set, but you wouldn't know it from the way firms treat applicants for full-time positions that have primarily contract experience, nor from the way that they treat contractors on document reviews for the firms (firms tend to treat contractors as idiots who barely graduated high school, and believe that anyone can do the work, though the last associate that I saw code a document screwed it up and crashed the system). The real question is how to make that skill set known and transferable.

I digress though, what are your thoughts.

As far as those of you asking about additional work, I have no updates other than to say it sounds like several contract firms are trolling for resumes. And I am sure for positions to post people in, but many of them do not have positions ready immediately.

Feel free to comment.

Black Sheep

890 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 400 of 890   Newer›   Newest»
Code Monkey said...

I think doc review isn't dead- it's in a coma. It will recover, but it won't be like it was.

Right now BigLaw is going to try to keep review in-house to pay for the associates they do keep. Their clients will force them to go back to us to reduce costs. Of course, they may also force them to hire offshore coders.

More lawyers willing to do DR and less available gigs means lower rates. That's going to be life for the foreseeable future.

Getting out? I think most of us will treat law the way people used to treat multi-level-marketing. We will go back to regular jobs and practice on the side. Maybe some of us can grow our practices into full time solo gigs.

Anonymous said...

the problem is, what "regular jobs" to go back to (with some of us having nothing more than a liberal arts degree and no experience whatsoever) and what jobs are even available in this market?

You can't exactly take a psychology degree or history degree with no practical experience out there (other than coding) and say, Hi, I'm qualified for this or that job.

Also: other than law, what field makes enough money to pay back loans? Great--- get a teaching job, but how will you pay back 900 per month on a 30K per year salary? You can't. Other than law, nothing really pays enough to allow someone to make student loan payments!

Not like you are going to become a stockbroker in this economy

Anonymous said...

Ugh. This is making me feel hopeless...

I would take an entry level nonlegal job, but I am now 5-6 years out of college with no work experience outside of document review.

Anonymous said...

i don't mean to be rude or sound mean, but i have to ask the question...didn't anyone seriously ever think of this before? i was briefly forced to do doc review after i stupidly quite a "real" job. fortunately, i was able to land another pretty great "real" lawyer job after a lot of hard work hitting the pavement and sending out 1000s of resumes. believe me, i know how fortunate i am...and i really feel for those who are currently unemployed right now. however, in my brief experience of doing doc review, i would say that the vast majority of reviewers were never looking for more permanent jobs. no were they taking classes or trying to change careers. it always perplexed me and made me wonder if all of those people ever gave much thought to what exactly they were going to do for a career. i am no brain surgeon (just a lawyer from a second tier school) but i knew enough to know that doc reviewers were completely expendable and jobs could quickly end at any given time. so again, i don't mean to sound insensitive, but didn't anyone ever think that this was going to happen (bad economy aside)?? just wondering...

...and i sincerely hope that everyone does manage to find work and make a good living. good luck!!!

Anonymous said...

Totally agree with 1:29 AM above. My thoughts exactly. I got out of doc review after a brief 4 month span...and did nothing but pound the pavement til I found a perm. job.

Most, not ALL, of the people I met in doc review were either fired from "real" jobs, or were pretty low in their law school class or went to a lower-tier school, and thought this was going to last forever...
frankly, MOST of the people I overheard thought it was an awesome way to make 80k per year...they didn't seem to get that the job lasted only as long as that specific project was going...and most of them were not literally breaking their printers producing mass-mailings of resumes...

Anonymous said...

Agreed and agreed. It's sad really. I know there are a lot of good people out there who are struggling, but I think a lot of people (certainly not all) are in this situation because they failed to see what was plainly in front of them (or were blinded by the 70 hour work weeks and large pay checks). Stop asking if there is more doc review work coming down the pike and start thinking about a long term career. It may hurt right now, but you might be in a better situation than you realize. Collect unemployment, defer a loan or two, and start trying to build a little side practice. Even if it's just pro bono right now. Make some contacts, build a client base. Live off unemployment and use the next 6-9 months building your own small practice. Stop asking when the next freakin' doc review project is starting in some shitty basement somewhere where they treat you like shit and kick you to the curb when you are done!

Dungeon Dweller said...

But you don't understand, they will call me back. I'll be back in the basement in no time...I know it.

Ass Lips said...

HEY BLACKSHEEP! BLOW ME!

Post something new assbag! I know you don't have a job. Lick my hairy anus!

Anonymous said...

When I first started reviewing documents several years ago, I asked people why they continued to do what amounts to the most boring work in the universe.

I was surprised to find that a number of my coworkers had actually gotten job offers with small firms or local governments, but that the salaries were pitifully low, sometimes in the 30's. This might be ok for a young, single person who doesn't have much debt, but its not ok for someone who has dependents on top of big loans. People kept reviewing documents because they had no choice financially. They could either get a $1500-2000 weekly paycheck and pay the bills on time, or go into bankruptcy working for Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe.

The fact of the matter is that if you have six figure debt from Villanova or Widener, small law isn't going to cut it. Someone with that burden has to pay down at least some the debt before they can afford that lower paying job on a better track.

In this economy, good luck. Local governments are not going to be hiring anytime soon. I am sure that small law will is also suffering because clients have less money to pay for services, and because insurance companies will want to settle cases for less.

Anonymous said...

I check job postings on a regular basis, and there is little to nothing as far as entry-level attorney jobs. Anyone who graduated in May without a job is probably in deep deep trouble.

Has anyone here created a solo practice that they can make a living with? I've talked to a few people who are trying, but the most common problem is finding clients who can put down a retainer. The people who get into trouble don't seem to be the ones with money.

Anonymous said...

Does this site need to exist??

http://coderemeritus.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

make all the excuses you want. those who turned down jobs paying 30K a year probably regret that decision right now. take a 30K job for 2-3 years, put loans in deferral, make some sacrifices and get through it. in 3 years, you'll be well qualified for a better paying real job. OR...just make excuses, whine, complain and collect unemployment because you made the stupid decision to be a career coder. good luck!

Anonymous said...

I think it's easy to play Monday morning quarterback and pass judgment on people whose individual finances you know nothing about.

You can't just "put loans in deferral" either. Usually the law will only allow this if you go back to school or have a temporary disability. Forbearance is an option, but interest will still accrue and this rapidly adds up at 7-8%.

You do what you have to do to meet your loan obligations and put food on the table. Sneering remarks don't change the reality of the mathematics.

Anonymous said...

If my options were:

forbearance for a few years, then earn more after gaining experience and getting a better job, I think I'd surely choose that over coding, gaining no experience, never using my degree...then being laid off!

There are no FULL TIME, PERM. EMPLOYEE CODERS. Of course you'd choose slumming it for 30K for a couple of years before gaining no experience, coding, then being laid off!

Face it--- at least if you took the 30K for a couple of years, you'd be a lot better in this marketplace than coding and now having no job anyway.

I agree- if you already have kids, that is a different decision. But no kids, no complaining. A wife or spouse doesn't count if you don't have kids- you could have postponed getting married until you bettered your situation--- and that spouse can easily get a job to help, too. TWo, if you had kids while coding (as many people I know have), that is pretty fricking stupid. You don't have kids if you aren't in a financial position to support them. Period.

I know coders who have purchased homes and assumed mortgages while coding. Pretty dumb thing to do when you are a temp. That's an obligation you have assumed for yourself- not something you didn't have to take on. It would have been far smarter to forgo home ownership, live as cheaply as possible while working at a REAL job for 2 years earning 30K, forbearing on your loans, for a greater payoff later. Sure--- you wouldn't be living the life you want YET- but that's part of maturity--- realizing that you have to sacrifice now to make a better life for yourself later on.

I'd say 30K per year, if you don't have kids, while gaining experience...is a lot better than earning 80K for two years, gaining no experience and the stigma of being a coder, then being laid off FOREVER except for a few temp jobs here and there...wouldn't you?

HOwever, I grant you, if you already have kids...different situation. Then they are your priority and frankly your experience isn't even something you need to care about--- it really is only what is best for them at the time, not you, and that's how it should be.

But if no kids--- no excuses.

And if you didn't want to deal with the 30K per year, maybe law school wasn't a great choice. Most of us went to 4th tier schools...(not all, MOST) and it's not like we went to Weidner and thought, oh, I"ll land a top 100K per year job at MLB, no problem. We knew what the average salaries were. It wasn't a hidden fact that we'd probably have to take a lower pay for a few years to establish ourselves and overcome our law school reputation.

I did it. I temped, got a lower paying job, and moved my way up. Sure, I've still got loans out the ass, but at least I can make my payments now when most of the coders I knew are currently collecting unemployment. Which is about to run out....and with no doc review jobs on the horizon...

Anonymous said...

Thanks you, 1:06 AM!

11:02, your attention to meaningless detail and your knowledge of the difference between a deferral and a forbearance kind of misses point, doesn't it?? Your excuses are really the reason that you are in your current situation. Truth be told...I went to a 2nd tier school and currently have 2 kids (one when I was forced to temp). I wasn't from Philly, didn't go to law school there, and had no real contacts. BUT...I used my time doing doc review wisely, hit the pavement hard to find my current job, didn't buy a house when I was temping (although I really wanted a house...and own one now), and I knew, above all, that the doc review job that I had was shitty and temporary and would only cripple my chances of landing a real law job if I stayed for any significant amount of time. Like I said previously, I feel very fortunate to have found a great job and to be in the position I am now...BUT, I worked HARD to get it! It's very sad that you continue to make excuses and still fail to see the inherent problem with doing document review. Like 1:06 AM said, you must have known your options prior to graduating from law school. If you went to a 4th tier, why didn't you take on fewer loans, go to school part-time, target government jobs, etc etc... OR did you really think that you would graduate from 4th Tier U Law School, with (probably) no clerking or other legal experience, and walk right into your corner officer at MLB or Dechert?? Sounds like you were slightly delusional about your career, and quite honestly, feel entitled to a 100K/year job. Good luck with that.

Anonymous said...

This is 11:02 PM.

I am very well aware of the problems people face when they work in document review for years.

And there you go again, Monday Morning Quarterbacking, making assumptions about people you know nothing about.

I did not attend a 4th tier school, nor did I ever take on a mortgage or rack up large credit card bills. I was under no illusions about a job at Dechert or Morgan Lewis. Dechert wanted top 5% before they would even consider interviewing people for OCI. I knew I wasn't going to get my foot in the door, nevermind a corner office.

I did have a regular job before I started reviewing documents, but the low pay and boredom got to me. I was also tired of dealing with the antics of opposing counsel, some of whom were no better than criminals.

My loans are paid off after many 60-hr weeks in the doc review dungeon. Fact is that I just don't give a shit anymore.

Colder Emeritus said...

1:06,

I'm sure you're not trying to be super-mean about this, but that's what you're coming off as. You're not helping the situation.

If you've got constructive advice to give, by all means, give it. Perhaps you think temps should do pro bono work or whatever. Or even leave the profession, try to get a teaching certificate or whatever. But it is certainly not constructive advice to tell people what they should have done in the past. What are they supposed to do? Use their Merlin-like magical powers to transport themselves back in time so they can take the 30k a year job instead of coding? What good is it to tell people this. Quite frankly, this is at least borderline taunting, if not outright taunting. What's done is done, the coders can't do anything about it. Unless your advice to them is to study up some hardcore physics so they can invent a time machine and re-do things.

Anonymous said...

In all seriousness, and just out of curiosity (I don't work for MLB), but just to guage the doc review "market," have the basement doc review people been called back at Morgan????? I have heard of a few people going into work at Morgan recently. NO, I AM NOT WAITING TO BE CALLED BACK, I DON"T WORK FOR THEM--- i am just curious as to how the market is going, and that might indicate whether jobs will pop up....

Poop Soggy Dog said...

As has been posted several times, there is very little going on out there in temp-land. Those projects that are going are not staffing up and most are winding down. And another thing - ENOUGH ABOUT THE FUCKING BASEMENT!!!!! The bowels of the MLB operaton are in no way an indicator of the greater doc review scene. Doc review as it existed is likely over.

Anonymous said...

Jesus Fucking Christ! What is wrong with you people?!? Fuck the fucking basement. The fucking basement is fucked!

Anonymous said...

Yeah, enough about the basement!!! Please, can anyone tell me the status of the projects NOT in the basement, but the status of the MLB projects in Suburban Station.

Anonymous said...

Same damn thing you putz!

Anonymous said...

Hey Coder Emeritus...1:06 here...I guess you are right. I do have some constructive criticism to give after all... Why don't you just sit by your phone and wait for someone to call you back about the job in the basement of suburban station!!! Let me know how it goes, douchebag!

Pedro Martinez said...

Hey...someone just called me about the job in the basement! That better not be one of you guys fucking with me!

Anonymous said...

Look, obviously someone just wanted to know something out of curiosity or whatnot. If you don't know the answer, just don't respond. People aren't always just asking so that they can get the job--- sometimes they want to know what their friends are up to and don't want to ask since unemployment is touchy, or because they just want to know for whatever reason. It's not a reason to demean the person asking.

Anonymous said...

shut up!

Anonymous said...

Doc review is apparently so shitty right now that even Blacksheep has abandoned his blog. He probably sees no reason for maintaining this blog anymore because it serves an ever shrinking number of coders. Back when there were large and ongoing projects, this blog had regular updates on rates, agencies, firms, conditions, etc. Now there is no helpful information - just circular conversations about who is or isn't working in some goddamned basement. Doc review was fun while it lasted but let's face it, the party is over.

Anonymous said...

you shut up too!

Anonymous said...

I am a lesbian!

God, that felt so liberating!!!

Anonymous said...

Hey 1:06,

Thanks for your "constructive" criticism. Though, I think I'll go another route.

At least you gave your opinion on what someone should do going forward, instead of going back into the past and telling people what they should have done. Seriously, like I said before, what good is that? It must take a lot of hay to feed that high horse of yours. But I guess if it makes you feel superior to mock people for making past decisions they no longer have the ability to change, that's your right. It's ironic that you don't see that your own behavior resembles that of a d-bag.

-CE

Anonymous said...

Damn... a couple flames and the message section comes back to life.

1:06's advice is pretty Republican, i.e. do nothing, LOL!

Anonymous said...

Hey 2:49 - I know the basement was Suburban Station, I was kidding you dope.

Anonymous said...

CE- sorry, can't talk...gotta get back to my JOB!

Anonymous said...

12:09,

Hey, that's cool. I'll pencil you in for sometime over the weekend, k? I mean, I can see by your rant over the past weekend that you've got a lot on your mind, so feel free.

Perhaps I'll even ballpoint you in. You know you've made the big time when you've be ballpointed into someone's schedule.

Anonymous said...

oh, goodie...can't wait! can we have tea and cookies?? perhaps we can talk about your glorious past as a team leader at McCarter. those were the days, huh? back when you were a legal superstar! hey...remember pizza fridays?? betcha you would love a free meal now, huh??

Coder Emeritus said...

Hmmm... for someone who has a job and is "busy -- can't talk" you sure find time in your day to troll a blog and comment.

and for someone who has a real job, it's interesting you would take time to visit a blog for coders, and even comment on one. Just a sadistic sun of a gun, huh? Add to that remembering all the details of projects such as "team leader at McCarter" and "pizza fridays." You must be obsessed with some random coder out there.

But yes, while I was not a "glorious legal superstar" I will admit that I was in fact on the McCarter project. There's no shame in it. Had to pay the bills, ya know? There's honor in all work. I had no illusion that it would be permanent.

Oh yea, for anyone super-bored who wants to write up random comments about their memories of coding, feel free to come to this website:

coderemeritus.blogspot.com

I'm done with the back & forth with the one crazy troll. Should've followed the routine advice of "don't feed the trolls" but got suckered in too easily.

Have a fantastic summer everybody!!

- CE/JJB

Anonymous said...

please, oh please feed the trolls. it's so much fun!

Anonymous said...

by the way CE...could you get me a cheeseburger with pickles and ketchup next time you order from five guys?

Anonymous said...

The 2 Logan Dechert review is toast:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jECh0oB_6DXwBxF2fh0AANiX4QVQD99F1H4O0

Anonymous said...

12:58 AM,

I am having trouble with the link. Will you please cut and paste the article.

Thanks

Anonymous said...

Merck and Schering-Plough Settle Vytorin Lawsuits (Update2)
Share | Email | Print | A A A

By Shannon Pettypiece
July 15 (Bloomberg) -- Merck & Co. and Schering-Plough Corp. reached a settlement with attorneys general for 35 states over claims the companies improperly marketed their cholesterol pills Zetia and Vytorin.
The companies agreed to pay the states’ investigative costs of $5.4 million while making no admissions or other payments, said Merck, based in Whitehouse Station, New Jersey, and Schering-Plough, based in Kenilworth, New Jersey, in a statement today. The settlement also includes the District of Columbia. Merck is acquiring Schering-Plough for about $46 billion in a deal announced in March.
Merck disclosed in November that the states were investigating potential violations of consumer-protection laws. The investigations followed a study called Enhance showing that Vytorin, a combination of Zetia and Merck’s Zocor, may work no better at unclogging arteries than just Zocor. Zocor is available in generic form for a quarter of the cost of Vytorin, according to prices on the online retailer drugstore.com.
“Today’s agreement is consistent with our belief that the companies conducted the Enhance trial in good faith and that their promotion of Vytorin and Zetia was in compliance with the law,” said Bruce N. Kuhlik, Merck’s general counsel, in the statement.
Sales of Vytorin and Zetia, which Merck and Schering-Plough share, fell 23 percent last year to $4.5 billion, the companies said previously.
Merck rose 55 cents, or 2 percent, to $27.71 at 4 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. Schering-Plough rose 45 cents to $25.37.
To contact the reporter on this story: Shannon Pettypiece in New York at spettypiece@bloomberg.net

Anonymous said...

So if there's a settlement, does that mean 2 Logan shuts down? How many more people will be looking for jobs?

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know about the basement? Are there any people working there? How about in Suburban Station, anyone there? Anyone working at MLB?

Anonymous said...

Great! Now all that has to happen is for the Pepper Hamilton to shut down and there will be exactly zero doc reviews up and running in this city. Game over. Then Blacksheep can shut down this blog because it will be utterly useless (as it seems to have been for about a year).

Anonymous said...

Just curious, why does it matter if the blog is shutdown because it is useless? If you dont want to come to it, then dont...

Has anyone heard anything about possible review coming to MLB in the next few weeks? Is there anyone in the basement working?

Anonymous said...

The MLB basement is completely empty. Most of the people I know who worked there have left for other jobs, if they were lucky enough to find a job.

Anonymous said...

Hey. Does anyone know about the basement at MLB?

Anonymous said...

I hear that the Pepper Hamilton project may be wrapping up soon. Is this true?

Anonymous said...

One can only hope.

Anonymous said...

Is the Pepper Hamilton gig wrapping up soon? Are there any people left in the basement?

Anonymous said...

Pepper is not wrapping up. I have no clue who started that rumor.

Anonymous said...

Hey...any word on that gig in the basement??

Anonymous said...

The rumors probably started because of the grading system that has been instituted. If they want to give the system any teeth, they should fire people.

I can think of a dozen people off the top of my head who deserve to lose their jobs.

Anonymous said...

when the job in the basement starts, will they be using the grading system? has anyone gotten a call about that yet??

Anonymous said...

Can the people who work in the basement use the grading system for the actual basement itself? Can they grade Pepper? Salt? Merck? Are there actually people in the basement right now?

Anonymous said...

How's the Stradley gig going? Any news there?

Anonymous said...

Isn't it pizza Friday this week?

Anonymous said...

Saw posting on Monster for a sec lit doc review in radnor. Is this Schiffrin? Anyone know anything about this job? is it a new one or an already existing doc review?

Anonymous said...

Nationwide Layoff Watch: Layoffs Weeks in the Making Finally Come to Dechert: http://abovethelaw.com/2009/07/nationwide_layoff_watch_layoff.php?show=comments#comments

Anonymous said...

Does this mean that 2 Logan is shutting down then?

Anonymous said...

Doc Review sucks! Who's with me?!?!

Anonymous said...

I don't know about Monster, but CL says the temp attorney gig in Radnor is a "complex matter involving pharmaceutical drug issues." Which is very strange because Schiffrin (which is no longer even called Schiffrin anymore) focuses on securities and basically nothing else. I wonder if the CL listing is a mistake.

A securities temp project in Radnor is almost certainly Schiff.

Anonymous said...

Wolf Block is dead...so is this blog.

Anonymous said...

So what ever happened to those temps in the MLB basement?

Anonymous said...

Rumor has it that on 7/27/09, the entire relevance team from the Dechert pharma project at 2 Logan were sent home to await a call back...possibly next week. Can anyone confirm this?

Also, what's going on at Pepper at Stradley?

Anonymous said...

Heard rumors about Dechert

Pepper: going strong, but not hiring. Same with Stradley.

MLB: does anyone know?

Anonymous said...

Can someone please provide info on "grading" at the Pepper project?

Anonymous said...

QCers are to email the first-level reviewer and cc the supervisor after each set. The reviewer gets a grade between 1 and 5.

Initially, QCers were being too kind and were told to give more bad grades.

Pepper reviewers are not given any discretion in determining privilege. They have a list of key terms and attorneys they must look through. If any of those terms come up, the document is to be coded privileged (Pepper does not run a term crawl or deduplicate documents, for that matter, because they want to rip off the client, Eli Lilly, as much as possible). Anyway, if you miss any of these "privileged" documents, you can't get better than a 3.

People have been told not to respond to the QCer and not to argue a grade, or their grade will be lowered. QCers have been told not to write comments such as "good job" or to give coding tips.

Basically, the whole system has caused much resentment between first and second level reviewers, and no one is sure why Matt Hamilton and Bill Sullivan have implemented this procedure. It may just be to placate Lilly because Pepper's training is so inadequate and there are so many bad coders on the project, or it may be to have some "objective" criteria to use when they decide to cut people.

Anonymous said...

Wow. The more I hear about what goes on at Pepper, the happier I am that I do not work there.

The QC people are not allowed to tell the first level reviewers how to improve? What moron thought of that? I'm sure the client would be thrilled to know that Pepper is doing a less-than-optimal job on the project.

If what 3:05AM says is true, the people running the review at Pepper are truly stupid.

Anonymous said...

How many coders are working there?

Anonymous said...

The problem with Pepper is that no one was adequately trained, so everyone has a different way of coding. If QCers give coding tips, there is fairly high probability that they will be wrong.

No one understands how the project keeps going and going. Granted Zyprexa was a giant clusterfuck, but the federal and private litigations have both ended. The only thing that keeps it going is that so many states have sued. I'd feel sorry for Lilly if they weren't guilty as sin.

The only other major document-review that Pepper has going is the Glaxo/Avandia case (working with the asshats at Stradley), so when Zyprexa dies down, no one knows what will happen.

Another big problem with working at Pepper (other than the lack of Internet access or respect)-- at least in the Health Effects Litigation Practice Group-- is that various people doing the same job are paid different rates, which causes a lot of resentment. They hired from a bunch of different agencies, and they hired people directly. Some people make $30 an hour. Others make $40 an hour. Meanwhile, they pay some unlicensed folks time-and-a-half while none of the licensed people get that.

That fact-- coupled with the fact that you have to work with assholes such as Mike McFarlin and Adam Block-- makes it a very unpleasant place to be.

As far as how many people are there, it is hard to estimate because they have people all over the firm (and off-site). It is safe to say that between the health effects people and the people in other sections, Pepper is the biggest review in town.

Anonymous said...

It sounds like Pepper and Stradley are the only games in town these days.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know if there are people in the basement at Morgan Lewis?

Anonymous said...

Is 2 Logan closed?

Anonymous said...

What about the basement at Morgan, is there anyone working there?

Anonymous said...

To answer someone's earlier question, there are roughly 110 coders on the Pepper/Eli Lilly project. Around 20 of those 110 are working at One Liberty through HIRECounsel, and the other 90 are working at 2 Logan. Of those 90 at 2 Logan, maybe half are direct hires, and the other half are through various agencies from three or four years ago that Pepper no longer uses for this project. The project doesn't show any overt signs of ending soon, but as someone said, they're not hiring either. The project used to number over 125 people, but since March 2009, around 15 people have either been fired or quit, and unlike in the old days, it's clear they have no intentions of replacing anyone anytime soon.

There are roughly 20-25 coders on the Avandia project at Pepper. I have no idea how many coders are at Stradley. Pepper has other smaller doc review projects in other departments, but I don't know any details about them.

Anonymous said...

Ok, in all seriousness, there ARE people back in the Deuce at MLB--- anyone know if they called back full staff?

Anonymous said...

Last I heard, there are about 100+ doc reviewers at Stradley on the Avandia project. I'm sure that gig will go on for another year at least. I used to work there.

Anonymous said...

What about MLB, was there anyone in the basement?

Anonymous said...

Her Royal Asnes is staffing a short term project at $25/hour.

Something tells me she's going to get resumes anyway.

Anonymous said...

So one of the largest reviews in the city shuts down and all anyone on this stupid blog can post about is whether there is anyone in the MLB basement?

WTF!!! Dose anyone have details??? (on Dechert not "the basement")

Anonymous said...

RE: Dechert

As far as I am aware, 2 Logan is down to a skeleton crew. I know some people who are held in very high regard by Hudson/Dechert/Simon who have been layed off. Does anyone else know anything?

P.S. Enough about the goddamned basement already.

Anonymous said...

I dont know about Dechert - but I am curious to know if there are any contractors in MLB's basement?? Does anyone have any info on that??

Anonymous said...

Enough about Dechert. Is there any news on the basement projects? Does anyone know if there is anyone down there??

Fired From Everywhere said...

Anybody hear anything about a new Providus project starting up?

Anonymous said...

Yes, I work in the basement. It was supposed to be secret. I'm not supposed to be telling anyone this. We're all working in a windowless basement in an undisclosed location. In fact, we're not even sure where it is. We are supposed to meet on a different street corner each day where we are pick up in a black van, blindfolded and taken to the location. The driver drives different routes each day. Sometimes it takes as little as 20 minutes to get there, other times as much as 2 hours. Of course, we can't start billing until we actually get to our desks. In fact, we cannot remove the blindfolds until we are seated in our chairs. Once seated, we cannot get up for 6 hours until we get a 15 minute lunch break. You learn not to drink anything all day, otherwise you are forced to urinate on yourself. I've seen that happen more times than I care to admit. After we return from out 15 minutes, it's another 6 hours before we are blindfolded and removed from the location. We are rarely dropped off near any form of public transportation. I've been dropped off in Fairmount Park, in North Philadelphia, once in Lancaster, and several times in small towns in New Jersey. I've had to sleep under bridges many nights because I couldn't find my way home. Of course, if you miss the van pick up the next day, you are terminated...literally. But, on the bright side of it all, I do have a job and I can call myself a lawyer...which makes it all worth it.

Sorry, I cannot tell you what we are reviewing.

I've said too much already...

Anonymous said...

I think 9:38 is joking. Anyone else agree? I mean, they dont people to pee themselves, it gets too smelly in the summer.

Anonymous said...

I'm not in the temping game at present.

But, I do know for a fact that at least some people have gone back to work. For those wondering if there's anything coming down the pipeline at MLB, I would at least contact the temp agencies. Contact whoever it is you worked through before, so I guess Update, or Providus, or that little shop Frankly, or whoever. See if they know anything.

I've found that in life, persistence sometimes pays off. And... while I hate doing this to MLB people, I would suggest that some of the temps e-mail direct to their former MLB supervisors if they had at least an okay relationship. Maybe not that Scott person because he seems to have a bazillion things to oversee, but then again, maybe him since he'd know more about the projects. Try whoever it is under Scott that you sent DSRs to. (or whatever the acronym was). I would guess they know you a tiny bit better. I personally don't have any updated knowledge of who works at MLB anymore or who doesn't. But seriously, just try. i guess there's a slight chance you'll annoy the person, but still, I would go for it. You gain nothing by being passive in life.

Fired From Everywhere said...

Is anybody working? If so, where?

DavidtheKing said...

Pizza Hut.

Anonymous said...

Hey, does anyone know if Wilf Block is dead? Are there any coders working in the Morgan Basement?

Coder E said...

if anyone is interested, call Frankly.

heard from the pipeline, 32/hr

good luck

Anonymous said...

NEWSFLASH!!!!

http://www.kyw1060.com/Economic-Woes-Hitting-Law-School-Students-Hard/5091674

Anonymous said...

So Drexel Law is admitting defeat. That place is nothing but a revenue generator for Drexel that never should have opened.

I like this quote:

"Amy Montemarano, the assistant dean of career and professional development at Drexel's Earle Mack School of Law, says there's a deafening silence from a third of the firms that used to recruit.

So, she says, her students are buckling down -- taking opportunities in government, with judges, and internships. They don't pay as well (or at all), but..."

Are you fucking kidding me? Don't pay at all? How the fuck are people supposed to pay their loans? How are people supposed to pay rent or the grocery bill?

Fuck the law schools. They implicitly promise a glitzy future, while saddling their graduates with horrendous debt that generally does not justify the career opportunities.

Anonymous said...

Is it true that special counsel has been calling candidates for a 1-3 month project? I am beginning to think I have been black balled by them. Not cool....

Fired From Everywhere said...

I don't think agencies ever really black ball anybody. I just keep calling them every week. By the way, has anyone been called back to the Providus MLB project?

PeteWentz said...

I've had blue balls before. Is that the same thing?? If so, I really don't want to be black balled! God, that hurts!

Anonymous said...

Is Stradley still hiring? I heard a friend of a friend got hired through Special Counsel a few weeks ago? What happened to Oxford? I thought they were in bed with Stradley.

And no, I haven't heard anything about the MLB basement.

Anonymous said...

Stradly is not hiring. Pepper Hamilton controls the hiring for Stradley and neither are hiring.

Anonymous said...

Stradley hired people last week, not through Oxford because Oxford lost the business a long time ago.

Pawl said...

My phone got disconnected!

KingCoder said...

Hey. I just moved back to Philly becawse I heard their's alot of work hear. Does anyone knew if Deckert is still hirring?? If so, who do I need to call? I've been document reveiw for four years now so I have a hole lot of expereince and would even be wiling to work for $25 or $30 an hour which is way lower then I usually get paid for. Any advise on jobs hear would be great. Thanks!!

KingCoder said...

Hey again. I just red the old postings and am thinking like what the f? I herd that theirs supposed to be alot of document review hear. Are you peeps yanking me a round or what?? Is their really not a lot of work hear? I'm geussing that alot of yous just ain't trying hard. Could one of you peeps who are actually professional and all please tell me who I need to call to get a job? I want to try to get in with Deckert or Wolf Black. My though is that if I can show them my skills working as reviewing documents then I can try to get in as an asosciate and starting to make some serious cash. I ain't even afraid of telling yous that because I'm the best their is! Nobody can touch what I've got going on...bee-aches!

Pat the Monkey said...

God, I could go for a Dirty Sanchez right about now!!

Anonymous said...

How about a Cleveland Steamer>

Code Monkey said...

How 'bout a Space Dock?

Is anybody actually working?

HasAJob said...

I'm working.

Anonymous said...

A little maturity would be nice...a lot of people are out of work and are just wondering what the scene is. Yes, I have another job (non law, to make ends meet) but it would be nice to know who is working where, and what is in the pipline. From what I can tell, Pepper and Stradley are the only games in town, and only select, more senior reviewers are back at MLB. Does anyone have any information to the contrary? We are in this together, guys. NO need for joking or profanity. All of us are just trying to make ends meet and are very concerned about long-term solutions.

Code Monkey said...

Honestly- market condition information is actually useful. I'm hoping that the market will pick up after Labor Day.

All I've heard was the $25/hr HC gig, a project that Kelly was staffing in Boston and Juristaff/Stradley. Collecting unemployment is boring.

Fired From Everywhere said...

I just tell my wife that I'm working. I get dressed and pack a lunch and spend all day in the park.

Anonymous said...

Even a previous "big boss" at 2 logan is out of work. There is no hope for the prideful.

Anonymous said...

HOLY SHIT!!! Simon Nagel appears to have purged from the Dechert attorney roster. Karma's a bitch aint it!?!

Pat the Monkey said...

great...pepper and stradley are the only games in town. that's been established fifty times over already! NOW....let's get to those Dirty Sanchezes!! Rim job anyone??

Fired From Everywhere said...

I want one!

Anonymous said...

Is anyone out there working on a project at somewhere other than Stradley or Pepper? Any smaller projects anywhere? even a 2-weeker?

Poop Soggy-Dog said...

Was Simon Nagel really shit-canned?

Anonymous said...

Simon actually got another job and he starts in a couple of weeks.

Anonymous said...

Yeah right! The last time I got shit-canned I told everyone I got a new job that started in a couple of weeks too.

Where is he going to be working if he really has another job?

Anonymous said...

Difference; Simon has considerable experience and Ivy League credentials. You don't. Get a grip.

Doc review is OVER, and the recent layoffs at Dechert, MLB, and everywhere else prove it. make fun of whomever you want who isn't a contract lawyer... but you'd also better find a new line of work. And it's not going to be law, because no firm hires former "I did nothing else but temp since graduation" coders. It's over. Get a new gig, and stop hoping that people who didn't regard your wonderful coding as legal work get fired. The coder-to-associate dream just doesn't happen, and it sure as hell isn't going to happen in this market. In fact, coding itself is over.

Love,
A Non Coder with a Real Job

Fired From Everywhere said...

"Simon actually got another job and he starts in a couple of weeks."

I told that to my wife one the times I got fired. Then, instead of working, I would get dressed and go hang out in the park. every now and then I would stop over at the mens room at the Wannamaker building above Macy's and hang out with the guys... Talk about a rim job!

Anonymous said...

That is because you are a loser. Simon, unlike you, graduated from Penn law and worked for at least two large law firms. I know for a fact that Simon was not terribly pleased about having to babysit a bunch a whiney coders who were constantly up-in-arms about one thing or another. Simon is actually a great guy...who actually helped me get my current job...a real job. Stop all the whining and Simon-bashing and start thinking about what skills you possibly have that will help you in this job market! You are not entitled to work!! If you chose to be a coder (a no-skill job), then I don't really feel sorry for you right now. Those that genuinely have been working hard at trying to find a REAL job...best of luck to you all!

Anonymous said...

Sure "Simon got me a job... a real job." You either blew him or he hooked you up at Starbucks.

You said it yourself- you gain no skills in doc review. Why are we supposed to believe you -- with no ascertainable skills-- got a "real job" in this shit economy (or a non-shit economy for that matter)?

Get back to coding troll!

Anonymous said...

Right, asshole! I gained no skills in doc review. My legal experience, obviously, does not come from being a "coder." I only did doc review for several months while I was in between jobs. I didn't stay at it long enough to become a douchebag loser, like yourself. Luckily, I got out last summer before the shit hit the fan economically. Simon not only wrote me a great letter of recommendation, but he also spoke to my current boss over the phone to help me out. Personally, I don't really give a shit whether you believe me, or what you think of Simon. I'm sure he'd agree that you are a loser. I'd tell you to get back to coding, but good luck finding a job! hahahahahahahaha!!!!

Anonymous said...

For those of us who truly know Simon, I wish him all the best. He was great to work for and he is a very good person. Anyone who disagrees obviously is either bitter because they were fired by Simon or they dont even really know him. "Nuff said.

Anonymous said...

Riiight. You met Simon "in between jobs" when you worked on doc review for a few months. And that brief period of time you spent in 2 logan made such a lasting fucking impression that you post regularly on a website devoted entirely to the Philadelphia doc review world-- nearly a year later!

Uh huh. and my girlfriend is a Swedish model.

Anonymous said...

Hmmm, you must really be a loser if it's too hard for you to imagine that (1) anyone who's ever done done doc review might have had other legal experience, or (2) that anyone who's done doc review cannot get a real job. As for 2 Logan...I was extremely happy to have that job when I did, I took advantage of the opportunity to get out resumes and network, I made some good friends (including Simon), and yes - I like to keep up with what's happening on this site (mostly because it's amusing...at least some poeple are). You, my friend, are a loser. You will likely always be a loser, and you likely always were a loser! By the way...when does your unemployment run out??

Anonymous said...

I hate to break it to you guys who are bickering over Simon, whoever the hell he is, but you are all losers.

Anonymous said...

Law is 4 Losers, whether you are a coder, biglaw bitch, or shitlaw slave.

Super Troll said...

For the love of God, would you all stop engaging with SimonFanboy#1? He's an obvious troll, ignore the insanity!

What's next? Are people going to run with the "confused whether UPenn and Penn State are the same law school" theme? How 'bout the ship be sinking? Is Penn State accredited by the ABA? A member in good standing with the AALS? Do the 2Ls have to take the baby bar?

The trolls go away when you stop taking them seriously. Don't egg them on!

Oh, last question:
Does Lisa need braces? Do I need a dental plan?

Anonymous said...

Why is it such a big deal that some random Staff Attorney got fired or let go?

Happens all the time.

Anonymous said...

I don't see why anyone would take pleasure in anyone being let go, because it obviously means there are even FEWER jobs out there.

So, if you'd rather see someone you don't like lose a job and lose your job as well, rather than see the market a bit healthier, well, that says a lot about you.

That whole group at Dechert--- the coders, the group leaders...Simon...is gone. Now I don't care how much you like or don't like someone..but hell, that isn't a good sign.

The bitterness is just...palpable. Grow up and maybe you won't be coding your whole life. Granted, don't think the majority of coders will get another job in law, but at least you may find something better than temp-coding if you mature a bit.

As for those who wonder who reads this blog: plenty of lawyers who don't code or have never coded. Why? It's funny. It's funny to see the underbelly of the legal profession, and those of us who have the ability to hire people have a keen interest in what and who is out there whose resume may come across our desk. Granted, this is anonymous posting--- but trust me....several attorneys i know, including myself, have heard from your bosses how most of you behave, and we read this to really see if for ourselves.

The fact is, the behavior of *most* coders and temps is notoriously awful, and has pretty much soured those in hiring positions against anyone with doc review on their resume (as if having lower-tiered law schools and insufficient experience wasn't enough). I am sure there are some very wonderful people coding- but it's not the majority. Looking at this blog, it's obvious. Sure, it's funny, but it's also pathetic to read what some people are.

Fact is, for those who are hiring associates, etc., seeing document review is a HUGE red flag. Coders have a very bad name in the legal community, and sadly, some good people are up against that reputation. But it is a black mark, no doubt.

Many of us read this to confirm the stories we hear, and trust me, the things that are written on here by supposed "professionals" are quite sobering and sad. Needless to say, it has not helped the image that the legal community has of doc reviewers.

But yes--- plenty of non coders read this...and yes, even at our "big" law jobs, we do have the time, and we find it amusing and also as a bigger warning sign to never hire anyone who is emerging from the swamp of doc review.

Many of you already have very inadequate resumes and poor transcripts- or else this wouldn't be the job you "aimed" for. However, you are not helping yourselves one bit--- even if the market turns around. The more recent grads will still get the associate jobs or clerkships or govt positions--- not those with coding on the resume. You guys do not help yourselves when you say exceedingly disparaging things about Simon. You do not help yourselves when you cannot listen to the rules at Pepper and other places. You do not help yourselves when you write things about getting blow jobs on a blog.

People are watching, and those of you with very obvious mental issues are really only making your case worse. Sure, you feel much better after mouthing off--- but personally? I'd much rather have a job one day than say "wow, I really said how I felt about Simon."

You guys aren't in a great position to begin with. Why make it worse by giving the entire temp work force a really bad name? Why not act professional so that, when people who can hire attorneys are able to, they don't see doc review and run?

Think about it. Although I"m sure you'd rather mouth off or find fault with anyone who has a job out of your complete immaturity and bitterness.

Takes 1 to know 1 said...

Well, that was a coke-headed rant if I've ever read one.

Anonymous said...

6:38 AM,

I take issue with this:

"Many of us read this to confirm the stories we hear, and trust me, the things that are written on here by supposed "professionals" are quite sobering and sad."

This kind of behavior goes on at all message boards. I read Above the Law and Autoadmit, and the nasty, racist, and unprofessional comments are just as prevalent as they are here and at temporaryattorney.

People at T14 schools and in the associate ranks at large firms are no less flawed than the coders and others posting here.

Anonymous said...

6:38, thank you. That was one of the most well-written, insightful and honest postings I have seen on this site. Like I posted earlier, I was fortunate enough to have gotten out of coding and into a real job as quickly as possible. I did have prior real legal experience, but a big factor was the recommendation that I got from Simon. There were very many, like myself, that coded for a short period of time because they had to do so. People that used their time wisely were able to find decent jobs at firms or in government. Like I said previously, I was very grateful to have that job when I did and I was very grateful to Simon for helping me out. I did not kiss Simon's ass; I simply came in, did my job well, didn't expect it to be anything other than it was, and made sure that I let Simon know if I ever needed to take an afternoon off for an interview. I never understood those who were simply content to sit on their asses and do nothing, all the while expecting to be treated more and more like professional attorneys. Hey, it's hard out there in the legal profession...especially for someone who didn't go the an Ivy League law school. But, you really didn't think you were going to coast by and graduate in the middle of the class from a T4 school and expect to land that big law firm job, did you?? Anyway, thanks 6:38, whoever you are, for a well-written post. Happy to know that I am not the only "non-coder" to read this blog. It really is amusing, isn't it??

Anonymous said...

it's funny. Those with jobs see the bitterness; those without remain in the swamp.

And yes, while associates at large firms may complain, I have NEVER EVER seen a blog containing the words "dirty sanchez" or "blow job" concerning people at firms. Above the Law, etc., may contain rants, but Jesus, you can't truly see the depravity of some of the postings on this blog?

And the bottom line is, you are not at all similar to people at firms. They have jobs. YOU DO NOT AND PROBABLY NEVER DID. (very rarely do coders have previous experience). Those at the top firms have a LOT that distinguishes them from you. And it probably starts with a T1 or T2 law school, fantastic grades, and a great summer associateship. Things you cannot boast.

Those that made it out from coder world respected their supervisors, listened to the rules, had decent production, and carried themselves with a lot more professionalism, probably realizing that they didn't have top grades or top schools and tried to over come that, instead of berating anyone who did.

So, in short, a coder will NEVER be what a firm associate is, and there are SEVERAL things that distinguish TEMPS (which is all a coder is...they use terms like "contract attorney" to make you feel better...contract my ass, you literally hit "relevant" or "not relevant" all day) from attorneys with real jobs, and one of them is certainly having posts that talk about how they want to get blow jobs.

The very minute someone posts something productive on here about jobs or pay rates or possible projects, another "coder" has to go back to the lowest common element and say "I want a hand job" or the like.

No, i just don't think many "associate blogs" do that.

I really WOULD love to know what these coders are going to do when their unemployment runs out and the student loan interest mounts. Oh wait, I'm sure it's Simon's fault! or the law schools' faults for "promising big money." What the hell law school did you go to that promised money? You went because some school told you you'd make money? You didn't see that a t4 school wasn't heavily (if at all ) represented in big firms? What did you see, a commercial for a law school?

I thought people went to law school because they were interested in becoming lawyers. And I really didn't think law schools went around touting some "you will have a Mercedes if you come here" propaganda. I have seen many posts about law schools promising money. Really? Wow. Even if they did (yeah, right) you were pretty easily duped to spend 100K because someone told you you'd earn a lot. YOu couldn't do simple research at the age of say, 22, to see that a T4 school wasn't going to land you at Dechert?

No wonder you aren't there!

Keep the posts up, kiddos. They provide great fun when I'm on a break. Keep making fun of those that got out of the dungeons where they put "coders." (P.S., if they deemed you to be attorneys, don't you think they'd treat you a little better? They don't. Because those at the firms hiring you for these projects know how you behave. They know they have to cut off the internet in order to get MOST of you to review one doc. There was literally an incident of someone defecating on the bathroom floor at Dechert. What does this tell you about the level of most coders? defacing property? All if it. The reputation of you guys sucks,and that is why you are not treated like anything more than a temp. You complain they don't treat you well, and they don't--- because you don't ACT like a professional, for the most part) And to those of you who realize this and hold yourselves above it, congrats. I hope you make it out.)

Anonymous said...

Well said!

Anonymous said...

"Those with jobs see the bitterness; those without remain in the swamp." - Those with jobs simply got there as a result of nepotism and ass-kissing. Please tell me how someone like Simon is more deserving of a "real" law job than me, or any of the other coders out there? True, I went to a T4 school and did just okay. But I passed the bar, just like Simon, and thus am just as qualified as he is. And yes, I feel like I was duped by my law school and if I could do it over, I would have never gone! I expect to be treated like an attorney!! Meaning...I want a real salary with benefits and a little respect. I'm sorry that BigLawFirmGuy doesn't value coding, but it's just not as simple as hitting relevant or non-relevant. If not for us, BigLawFirmGuy wouldn't have his fancy house on the Main Line and wouldn't be driving a BMW. Truth is, WE do all the heavy lifting while guys like you sit in your offices all day and go on golfing trips. THIS is the bitternewss you sense!! Yes, I honestly bewlieve that I am just as entitled as you are!!! No, I've never worked in a law firm, but I've seen enough and heard enough to know that associates and even some partners don't do anything more complicated than coders! You are living in a fantasy world if you think you do, if you think that your job is more important than ours. And we'd all appreciate it if you didn't talk down to us. And SimonFanBoy...nice try, we all know you are an unemplloyed coder like the rest of us. troll!

Anonymous said...

Uh...you said you went to a T4...right there, yeah, it makes you less qualified. It's like saying that someone who went to Bloomsburg is equal academically to someone who went to Harvard. get a grip. For whatever reason you didn't go to a better school, you didn't, and you knew that full well knowing that firms and corporations valued the bigger, better schools. it's just a fact of life.

Simon went to Penn. We all know the Ivys have a cache, and there isn't much you can do about it. So you will never be deemed as qualified by anyone out there.

I do quite a bit of hiring--- we won't even look at a T4 resume. Like it or not, it's a fact.

And there are rules against nepitism in the large firms. Stop consoling yourself. bottom line: if you had a better law school and better grades, yep, you'd probably be employed right now.

It's just the way the world works.

Anonymous said...

Why are you all so mean? Can't we all just get along?

Anonymous said...

11:55...thank you for writing some useful, of not sobering, things in response to some rather inane comments.

You mentioned that you do quite a bit of hiring, and that you don't even look at people who went to T4 schools. There are quite a few of us who went to T2 schools, and were forced into doing doc review for lack of any other options (We can debate why, but that's irrelevant at this point). So, my question to you is: Could you tell us some things that you do look for on a resume, apart from a T1 pedigree, that might, at the very least, compel you to call someone in for an interview? And also, what is your suggestion for those who do have real legal experience, but also have some document review mized in? Would you recommend hiding that fact? I sit better to have a gap in your work experience, or a few months of doc review?

And, honestly, I do appreciate your comments.

-Trying hard!

Anonymous said...

"thank you for writing some useful, of not sobering, things in response to some rather inane comments" - stop kissing ass. it won't help you get a job!

Also, this loser is just a troll, like yourself. He doesn't do any hiring. He's just like you, a coder. Get over it. He lives in a fantasy world and you are buying into it.

Anonymous said...

To the most recent posting and author: kudos to you for a mature attitude and constructive approach. Many just don't like to hear the truth.

I wouldn't "hide" the document review, but I also wouldn't go into the interview acting like you believe it to be a year of experience. It isn't. But I would make the most of what you learned while doing it. Be honest: I temped. But I am seeing plenty of people who never held another job besides doc review listing themselves on Monster.com, etc., as One year of experience or two. That is a nontruth and it looks bad. You are entry level if that is all you have done. period. It's best to not start off stretching the truth.

Years ago, the T2 schools got jobs automatically. Sad times, huh? This is why the t3's and t4's are really not getting jobs, and they don't seem to understand that all the unemployed t2's are waaay ahead of them.

What we look for are grades and a very definite "path" in law school-- meaning, if you are applying for a corporate job, did you take classes that prepared you for that, and show an interest in that? many a person claims a "passion" for, say, litigation--- but then you look at the resume and it's a smattering of classes, none of which are truly the mark of someone who wants to be a trial lawyer.

Also, we look for moot court or law journals. Most schools have several journals or types of advocacy programs, etc. Just saying you were a member of the Women's Law Student org. or whatnot does NOT make any impression. We want to see substantive work--- editing, moot court work, something.

Externships don't really count at all. You get course credit for them- no one really cares. They are just a class that was "taken" to get credit.

Clerkships are BIG, and certainly still good even if Common Pleas court. We know research was done and a lot of writing experience was gained.

Also, don't over look the power of a very high undergrad. Even if you are a T3 law school, attending an Ivy undergrad or a very difficult program at a good school counts. Several people have science backgrounds or something different than a humanities degree, and it makes an impression. We know it was a tough program. And if you went to a highly ranked undergrad, it can certainly go miles to offset a less-prestigious law school.

The best advice I can give is to put as much on your resume pertaining to ACTUAL CASES you worked on and what you learned. Don't pad it with "I really have a keen interest in English literature." In this market, no one cares what you do outside of the office. We care what you can do for us. We are hiring you to do work--- not join a club. So many resumes have more on them about activities than about actual work experience.

I think what will look really bad right now is this; a T3 or T4 school, a lower tier undergrad with a liberal arts major, no moot court, no journal, and someone who has been temping since graduation in 2007. I'd say if you graduated after 2007, there will be more sympathy about temping as the job market took a bad plunge. But if you were Class of 2007 or before that and you are still temping, it's a tougher road, to say the least. Hopefully you had some good summer experience or work experience.

I hope this helps, and much luck to you.

Anonymous said...

To the person above: i am not a coder, never have been.

Correction in my previous post-- the most recent poster was NOT the mature one. It was the person who asked the question to try and advance.

Anonymous said...

More layoffs of contract attorneys at Pepper today-- at least 9.

As to the people who are posting the really nasty messages, why? I can think of no other profession where the successful are nastier to the unsuccessful. We all know the education at a T1 law school isn't that different than the education at a T4 one. It is just that the skills-set required to be a successful lawyer really isn't that difficult, so the profession needs a (somewhat) arbitrary way to differentiate. Don't get me started on the insipid nature of the law review.

Why look down on people? Why are lawyers such a disagreeable, nasty bunch?

Anonymous said...

The reason people were saying these things to CERTAIN people was because certain people were saying some pretty disparaging and awful things about former supervisors and were gloating about people being laid off or terminated.

I am sure that the unemployment factor, etc., is also fueling the "nasty and disagreeable" side of people.

Super Troll said...

BigLawFirm guy,

I'm having a hard time deciding whether you are in fact a troll. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and run with the presumption that you are indeed on some hiring committee.

That being said, do you not think there should be some type of "in-between" status for which you can treat coders as? You don't want to treat them as your equals because they went to awful schools or whatever. Fine. But do you have to treat them as human garbage? I mean, you can treat them as nicely as you treat your secretaries, right? Perhaps your mailboys/copyboys/coffeeboys? Why treat coders like garbage?

I'm a ex-coder that left coding also, but for something totally unrelated. But still, I would say that the vast majority of coders I knew were NOT human garbage. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Super Troll,
You must really be an asshole if you are always treated like "human garbage." Generally, people treat you the way you invite them to treat you. Like I said in my previous postings regarding Simon and coding, I acted like a professional and used my timely wisely to find a real job. With a little luck, a little experience, a little help from people like Simon, and a lot of hard work, I found a job that I love. It's not the most well-paying job, but I have an office, a secretary AND a paralegal and I really enjoy the work. I did not go to a T1 school and, even when I was briefly coding, was never treated like "human garbage" by ANYONE. Maybe it's time to reevaluate how you are presenting yourself both personally and professionally.

And "Big Law Guy"...thanks again!

Super Troll said...

Quite frankly, I never met this Simon guy and have no idea who the f he is. I never made a comment about him. I was addressing BigLawGuy, who apparently "won't even look" at a T4 coder. Nice.

Just because you were never treated like garbage doesn't mean others weren't. What, are they just hallucinating this stuff? A mass hallucination? You were treated well, good for you. Others were not as lucky. Enjoy your secretary and office and paralegal and swhatever. Enjoy the weekend

Anonymous said...

Hi. Big law guy here. At what point did anyone advocate treating anyone like garbage? What I said is that you are not treated like professionals when you are not behaving as such and not deemed to be professional. It doesn't mean you are treated like garbage--- honestly. Such drama.

If coders think it's being treated like garbage to have internet cut off at work or other rules imposed (esp. when work isn't getting done, etc.), then they really need to mature a bit. And if a law firm or attorney thinks temps have subpar credentials, that still doesn't translate into treat coders like garbage.

However, not treating someone like a professional? Sure. Would you treat people professionally who defaced property, lied about billing, etc.?

I have heard stories about temps being fired for lying that they were in the office and billing when they clearly were not. That's some pretty bad shit if you ask me, and it's happened a LOT. Or temps who whine to their supervisors that someone looked at them too much or was too close to their desk. You call this professional behavior? YOu wouldn't even get time of day in a law office if you complained about a fellow associate doing that! You should HEAR the stories of the majority of coder behavior.

There are SEVERAL coders who are NOT like this, esp some back-to-work moms and older people who are in-between jobs. To them, I apologize for generalizing--- but I'm sure these people have heard the recounts of these stories as well.

It is the awful behavior that has given coders the bad name. And it happens A LOT. Fights break out between coders so often it's honestly pathetic. People like Simon have to play recess cop between 2nd graders. Now, I'm sorry, but I don't think that such behavior belongs behind the counter at McD's let alone at a law firm.

And some of the posts on this blog really mimic the behavior that has transpired in the offices.

And that is why coding has received the really, truly bad name.

I have heard stories of theft, defecation, ripping down fixtures, name calling, severe OCD and yelling, paranoia.....honestly, it makes coding sound like a mental hospital.

Sane, rational, mature people do not behave like that. And they certainly don't call former bosses things like people have been called on here. It takes a pretty low level to do that. Which explains why people remain coders.

And now, pretty funny-- not even many "coders" exist. I think firms will get to the point they realize it is NOT worth it to have to deal with the problems that come with it.

Pepper's purported layoffs today should show you that it's extinct or will be on a very limited basis. The days of 3 year employment at one doc review site are over.

And by the way: I forgot to add that recommendations of former supervisors are SUPREMELY important. So, you may be happy that Simon hates you--- but guess what. If you ever get an interview and he's called? Good luck to you. Not burning bridges counts for something when you are looking for a job.

Unemployment won't last forever. In fact, for most of you, I'm sure it's winding to a close. Bon appetit!

Super Troll said...

Big Law guy,

I'll make this my last response. Here's the deal: if you are lumping in all the coders as people who defecate on floors or deface property, then you are treating them like garbage. Look, I'm sure bad things have happened, but how 'bout you try to at least judge people on some level of individual basis. I know it's hard and sometimes we need to make generalizations, but still.

The problem is what you deem "the majority of coder behavior." Like I said, I strongly believe the vast majority and extremely polite and well behaved. Not that i've taken a census, but I've been on a couple of projects in my former attorney life. I don't know what types of projects you've supervised, but if you don't have first hand knowledge, maybe the people you heard stories from are the ones that are being overdramatic.

I do not think you are an awful person, just that you are not giving a fair shot to people. You say you know several decent coders. Once again, I thikn you have the proportions backwards. There are several people that deface property and such, but the vast majority are good people.

I agree that some of the posts are juvenile. Once again, i do not believe that is representative of the vast majority of coders.

Lastly, i do not think it's funny to taunt unemployed people. I know you're frustrated or whatever. enjoy your 3-day weekend.

Anonymous said...

Are there crazy people who work in document review? Yes.

Are they the majority? No.

The vast majority of temps I have worked with are decent people with good work ethic. Troublemakers are extremely easy for a firm to fire, and they generally do not last very long on a project.

Anonymous said...

I love shaving cream and apples, and eating soup with my sister, Sally. On Wednesdays, I like to feed ducks and chickens and then go for ice cream. Butter pecan is my favorite flavor, but sometimes I like rum raisin too. My apartment is cluttered. I need better organization. I am going to go and eat some lady fingers now. Ta-ta for now.

Anonymous said...

What's up with the Pepper layoffs?

Coder Emeritus said...

A few thoughts regarding BigLaw guy

1. Big Law Guy has probably never actually supervised a temp project. All of his anecdotes might be second hand. Worse case scenario, they are made up and are urban legends. Best case scenario, there is a selection bias where his friends tell him all the bad things but never any good things about temps. After all, it's not much of a fun story when you begin with "guess how well behaved my temps were today." It's like news stories. It's only news if it's bad.

2. I will venture a guess to say that BigLawGuy's actual source, or main source, is the famous/infamous Simon himself. While I admire to some degree his loyalty to his colleague, it compounds a possible selection bias in the anecdotes he hears.

3. I hate to disparage Simon and invite an escalated response, but I will also venture a guess that his presence at the very least contributes (if not heavily responsible for) the circus-like atmosphere at 2 Logan.

Personally, I met him briefly for about 2 seconds. He was speaking with one of my friends in the lobby of the Bell Atlantic Tower. As I passed by, I said hi to my friend. Simon nodded at me, or might've said hi, and I nodded back. Sort of like the way strangers do when they make accidental eye contact. I didn't know who he was until after when my friend told me.

He seemed relatively normal for that two seconds, but I have definitely heard from multiple sources of the crazy ill-tempered behavior he exhibits. Let's say they are exagerrations.

But... this does not explain why there are no Simon-esque complaints about other staff attorneys. Maybe there are minor complaints about supervisors, but nothing rises to Simon levels. Take the Bell Atlantic Tower. I was on McCarter for several months and witnessed zero fistfights or property damage. (the worst was when this one guy accidentally leaned on one of the fake walls and it came crashing down). There was no hardcore bashing of the McCarter associates on Bell Atlantic 5th floor. Bell Atlantic 33rd had a Dechert project for a while and everything seemed to run smoothly up there. No big complaints about the Dechert staff attorneys there. MLB kids are BEGGING to get back into the basement. They have complaints about the office environs maybe, but no Simon level bashing of say, Scott Milner, who seems to be a genuinely nice guy. (I hope this does not instigate some random idiot starting up Scott bashing).

My point is this: 2 Logan is such a nuthouse compared to Bell Atlantic, Stradley, MLB, the past Reed Smith. There has to be a reason for this. Simon probably contributes. And perhaps the temps respond and it all escalates. Who knows?

Coder Emeritus said...

A few thoughts regarding BigLaw guy

1. Big Law Guy has probably never actually supervised a temp project. All of his anecdotes might be second hand. Worse case scenario, they are made up and are urban legends. Best case scenario, there is a selection bias where his friends tell him all the bad things but never any good things about temps. After all, it's not much of a fun story when you begin with "guess how well behaved my temps were today." It's like news stories. It's only news if it's bad.

2. I will venture a guess to say that BigLawGuy's actual source, or main source, is the famous/infamous Simon himself. While I admire to some degree his loyalty to his colleague, it compounds a possible selection bias in the anecdotes he hears.

3. I hate to disparage Simon and invite an escalated response, but I will also venture a guess that his presence at the very least contributes (if not heavily responsible for) the circus-like atmosphere at 2 Logan.

Personally, I met him briefly for about 2 seconds. He was speaking with one of my friends in the lobby of the Bell Atlantic Tower. As I passed by, I said hi to my friend. Simon nodded at me, or might've said hi, and I nodded back. Sort of like the way strangers do when they make accidental eye contact. I didn't know who he was until after when my friend told me.

He seemed relatively normal for that two seconds, but I have definitely heard from multiple sources of the crazy ill-tempered behavior he exhibits. Let's say they are exagerrations.

But... this does not explain why there are no Simon-esque complaints about other staff attorneys. Maybe there are minor complaints about supervisors, but nothing rises to Simon levels. Take the Bell Atlantic Tower. I was on McCarter for several months and witnessed zero fistfights or property damage. (the worst was when this one guy accidentally leaned on one of the fake walls and it came crashing down). There was no hardcore bashing of the McCarter associates on Bell Atlantic 5th floor. Bell Atlantic 33rd had a Dechert project for a while and everything seemed to run smoothly up there. No big complaints about the Dechert staff attorneys there. MLB kids are BEGGING to get back into the basement. They have complaints about the office environs maybe, but no Simon level bashing of say, Scott Milner, who seems to be a genuinely nice guy. (I hope this does not instigate some random idiot starting up Scott bashing).

My point is this: 2 Logan is such a nuthouse compared to Bell Atlantic, Stradley, MLB, the past Reed Smith. There has to be a reason for this. Simon probably contributes. And perhaps the temps respond and it all escalates. Who knows?

Anonymous said...

A few thoughts regarding Coder Emeritus...

1. He is a loser coder.

2. His blog sucks.

3. He will never find a real law job and will always be a loser coder.

Anonymous said...

Pepper didn't lay anyone off. The finally fired some of the worst of the worst coders. Everyone who was let go deserved it.

Anonymous said...

Guess that's why they instituted the grading system! Not a bad idea, and face it--- people were warned.

Anonymous said...

If someone imposing a grading system wasn't enough to say that production counts and people will be let go, I don't know what it takes.

Anonymous said...

that's bullshit. stop treating people like human garbage. do associates have grading systems at their firms?? No! in no other profession do people treat each other the way that attorneys treat other ATTORNEYS!!

Anonymous said...

Here we go again. Yes, at firms, there IS a grading system. It's called you get shit canned if you write a rotten brief. How is this different? Oh, that's right, coders don't even do anything as vital as a brief. Get a grip. How is a grading system treating people like garbage?

here we go again with the above thread. You coders think anything beyond letting you sit, surf the internet, and stay at a job no matter how crappy your production may be is treating you like garbage. You could HANDLE being an associate ANYWHERE, and that is why 8:11 is a coder. If a grading system is the same as treating you like garbage, Jesus, you aren't cut out for much. If you were doing real work, trust me, you'd be graded. And probably out the damned door. This is what the above argument is about. Anything that is relatively disciplinary or anything that evaluates your work is "treating us like garbage."

And why coders get a bad name. Enjoy that running-out unemployment!

If the coders at Pepper weren't minding their every move, knowing that Pepper and Stradley were basically the only games in town, they are complete morons. I'd be working every damned second to secure my job.

Take a look around you. Two Logan: done. Morgan Lewis, from what I hear, kept about 15 of their coders. Pepper and Stradley are IT and if people are lucky enough to have jobs there, and don't want to comply or perform...TOO DAMNED BAD.

Everyone who KNEW the people at Pepper was happy to see them go. Do-nothings bring down the morale of those who are working.

jesus, seriously, a grading system is "treating temps like garbage?" Lord. You need HELP.

Anonymous said...

for a "big law firm guy", you sure spend alot of time surfing the internet. i guess no one is grading you?? I think you need to get a GRIP!

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know when firms are going to start hiring again for the fall? Also, what are the big doc reviews currently going on in town right now?

Thanks, Recent grad

Anonymous said...

Given that most big firms have pushed back the start of summer associates til at least Jan. or even next year, I doubt you will see ANY hiring. If the big ones can't afford to hire, then the smaller ones REALLY can't.

As far as doc review, there is only pepper and stradley, and they aren't hiring. MLB laid most of everyone off and Dechert's is over.

If anyone knows anything different, I'd love to know, too.

Coder Emeritus said...

To Big Law Guy,

First, even if having a grading system isn't treating people like garbage, you must admit that it is patently unfair to presume that all coders should be lumped in with the outliers that defecate on floors. Can you at least concede that one tiny point?

Second, Big Law Associates were not truly "graded" until very very recently. If you read blogs like AboveTheLaw.com, you will see that BigLaw associates are screaming "the sky is falling" because many firms are now abandoning lockstep. This is a relatively new phenomenon. Prior to the economy falling into shambles, associates enjoyed wonderful lockstep practices where associates all were compensated according to what class year they were. So if you and I both entered the firm in 2006, we get paid pretty much the exact same for years and years regardless of how different our practice groups were, what different tasks we performed, or how adeptly we performed them.

Feel free to further educate me on how your firm handles associate "grading" and how perhaps your firm never used lockstep.

Thanks.

Anonymous said...

All of the big firms "graded" and associates were paid differently after the second year.

And aren't associates "graded" daily on what type of briefs they write? On deps? On their daily performance? That is why people LOSE their jobs or don't make partner. The whole entire JOB is a grade. They are "graded" on hours billed, work product, EVERYTHING.

LIFE is graded. Good grief.

Coders aren't doing substantive work, so there had to be SOME way to weed out those who are inaccurate or nonproductive. From what I have heard, most people were HAPPY to see the slackers axed.

Anonymous said...

Oh, snap! Coder E just slapped Big Law Guy down!! Take that to your big fancy firm boyeee! Whatcha got to say now BLG?? The silence is mps' deafnin'!!

Anonymous said...

Oh no! BLG just slapped back! It's on boyee!

Anonymous said...

Tell 'em Coder E! We ain't gots to be graded! We attorneys!!!

Coder Emeritus said...

I love how you are now telling me everything is a "grade." Your supervising partner yell at you one day for writing a crappy brief? That's a grade! The entire job is a grade!

Seriously though, I wasn't saying the people didn't get yelled at, just that there were no layoff/salary cut consequences to those "grades." Up until recently, it was basically understood as a gentlemen's agreement that if you worked at a large law firm, you were lockstep. Your performance reviews might block you from becoming partner in the future, but you were not fired or even docked salary or bonuses. Feel free to hang around the firm as a "zombie partner" or a "zombie associate." You had to screw up pretty bad to be let go. And many of the top firms are STILL doing lockstep. Well beyond the third year.

However, I am fairly entertained by you. Life is graded, this is true. TV says so, and if you can't trust TV, who can you trust?

One of my favorite commercials ever was this ad for Curve cologne. It went something like "Life is a test, but no worries, God grades on a curve."

Anonymous said...

You go on with your bad self Coder E!! Tell that Big Law Guy how it is in the real world. Don't know what kind of punk ass loser firm he works at, but it obviously ain't no Deckert. He probably just a lowly associate there himself, just a coder with benefits.

Anonymous said...

I don't know Big Law Guy, and I don't know Coder E, but wow, I have noticed that a lot of you like to make yourselves feel so much better by putting anyone down who might be something OTHER than a coder. Never seen such sour grapes in my life.

Any piss ass firm is better than your coding. Excuse me, your unemployed coding.

By the way, it's not Deckert, you flipping moron. DECHERT. Guess T4 schools and may the likes of West Chester U for undergrad never have to worry about the spelling of those firms anyway. Carry on, dipshits.

Anonymous said...

Uh sorry i beg to differ- associates DO get fired, and MOST of them end up coding! I know a couple who were let go from medium sized firms years ago, before the layoffs, when things were really good. People lose jobs all the time

Anonymous said...

Sorry I mispelled DECHERT asswipe! Apparantly I dont have a chance of working at a big firm anyways because I went to a T4 school. Who cares?! Don't make no difference to me weather its Deckert or Dechert...they can all kiss my hairy ass! In the REAL world, if they put me up against any of those big law associates who went to Ivey League schools, I'd mop the floor with them. But we don't live in the real world and good attorneys like me don't even get looked at by people like Big Law Guy. Why is that?! I hate to break it to you, but the so called coders are the real attorneys, who do all the heavey lifting and make all the money for people like Big Law Guy. Without us, he'd be just a coder too, which is why they want to keep US coding, so they don't have to. problem is, if they don't give us any more coding jobs, then guess whi'll have to do them? that's right...big law guy will have to code all his own documents and he'll have to miss his tee time at the club. think about it. they need coders as much as we need the jobs.

Coder Emeritus said...

The previous comment is correct, though a bit strong. Without coders, the precious biglaw attorneys would be doing the coding themselves. (and gauging their eyes out). http://www.courtoons.net/2009/01/02/friday-january-2-2009/

Unclear whether 6:17 was supposed to be addressed to me. If it was, I dunno. I thought I was pretty clear in describing lockstep as a phenomenon in BigLaw. As a BigLawyer might ask "why are you discussing a non-peer firm?" Comparing a mid-law firm to biglaw is like comparing coding with the d.a.'s office. They're simply different worlds. We're talking biglaw where they "sidebar" you as a giant paid vaca; offer stipends for deferrals; and worse case scenario, offer "go away" money for incoming associates to go away instead of start at their firms. It's a different world, and it's a world where they (up until recently) showed extreme loyalty to their associates, even underperforming ones.

I'm just tired of this bickering, so fine. BigLawyers apparently get graded and fired all the time. Everything I've ever known about biglaw has been a giant lie.

I will call a unilateral truce here and try to switch the topic. ANyone know how long they're filming in Center City? It's a little bit exciting. Last week, I had asked a crewmember about it, and he said "it's the last day we're filming here." I thought here meant the city, but he just meant that particular building, because on Friday, they were filming in Rittenhouse Square! and today, they seemed to be filming in front of Comcast by Table 31. Haven't seen anyone super-famous yet, but maybe? I remember back in my coding days they filmed some bits of Transformers here and I was a little bummed that I was stuck in work the whole time. Maybe this is a silver lining to being so free? Oh, that plus not catching swine flu while working at a coding center where they place coders about one and a half feet next to each other.

Anonymous said...

Ok, never thought about the swine flu issue, glad I"m not coding right now, good point

Heard that 2 Logan is down to a core crew, if that, and that at MLB they have about 10 contract lawyers there, tops. Any info?

Anonymous said...

There is so much damn brain power in this group it's scary!

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know where to go to find a job? I heard that Hutson is hiring, but I cannot find any information on them. Does anyone got a contact number?

Anonymous said...

Henry Hutson did it for the lulz.

Anonymous said...

start by spelling it hudson and you'll have more luck

Anonymous said...

I was one of the coders laid off last week by Pepper. While there were a couple of bad apples in the group, there also was a distinct pattern of laying off agency hires with high hourly rates. I asked around-- of the people who weren't discipline problems, we were all making $35/hr or more. Which probably means $60 to the agency.

Anonymous said...

Those laid off had the lowest grades. period. everyone knew it. agency or non agency had nothing to do with it.

Coder_234 said...

Whether the Pepper lay-offs were for poor grades or not, it is hard to dispute that the tenor of the agencies & firms conducting doc review has been to reduce wages.

Stradley laid off their staff and rehired them as contracts. They switched agencies to go from paying contractors $40/hr to $35/hr.

Face it, there are 50 coders for every job and the firms and agencies know it. They could offer $20 and we would still jump at the offer.

It isn't so far-fetched that Pepper is finally getting wise to the situation and realigning their staffing accordingly. Doing it under the guise of firing “under-performers” is just a polite nicety-- that as temp workers -- we probably aren’t even entitled to.

Anonymous said...

One has to wonder how the agencies are staying afloat during this time. Anyone have any thoughts? I mean, if Pepper/Strad. are the only games in town, what is Hudson/Update/etc. doing? And other recruiters for perm. jobs?

Anonymous said...

9:17, I am sure with all of the work out there to be had the agencies are raking in the moolah.

Anonymous said...

Dear Black Sheep:

Please update your website.

I know it has only been 5 months, but c'mon, we're unemployed and bored!!!

GetAJob said...

Hey you bozos, why don't you use this time of doing nothing but collecting unemployment and try to start a practice?? Learn a skill for god's sake!! Do some pro bono work, do some wills for friends and family, get on the court appointment list at the CJC...DO SOMETHING!! No wonder you're all f-ing unemployed coders! Why would ANYONE want to hire a group of people who have no skills and no career drive AND pay them a lot of money to do it??? Stop freaking complaining about the people who have jobs, the T4 schools, Big Law Guy, Simon, etc etc...go freaking DO SOMETHING!! Get on a f-ing board for a bar association committee, attend local planning meetings...GET OFF YOUR LAZY ASSES!!

Anonymous said...

Agency had everything to do it. I got nothing lower than a "3" the whole time they had the stupid system in place-- I got 2 5s and a 4 my last week there. It was all money related.

Anonymous said...

Dear GetAJob:

F*ck off. Hudson AND Update said they would get back to me as soon as something opened up. I have nothing to worry about.

See, I already "did something" to jump start my career.

Anonymous said...

well then i guess others had higher grades.

and those that were top coders? guess what. pepper already hired them as project lawyers for pepper.

guarantee you, it was not money related. I have not heard one of my friends who code at Pepper say that those who were canned didn't deserve it. In fact, they could already pick out who was going to be laid off before it happened.

Anonymous said...

too true (to the above comment)

it's pretty much over law-wise for us if all we did was code since grad. 2-3 years ago. finito. move on.

Anonymous said...

12:21, you are a winner! Amazing that no one has scooped you up yet.

Hey Big Law Guy, check out 12:21 - I'm sure he'd make a great addition to your firm!

Anonymous said...

Eat shit!

Anonymous said...

Wolf Block is Dead comments to 400!

Shooter McGavin said...

I eat pieces of sh*t like you for breakfast!

Anonymous said...

Probably all you get to eat, you unemployed loser!

Anonymous said...

There are always a lot of comments on this board preaching the virtue of "getting out of law."

When people say that where are they going? So far I have only met one person to successfully transition out of doc review to her childhood dream of being an elementary school teacher.

What is "out of law" when you have no previous career and no lifelong dream to do something else?

Anonymous said...

I've gotten out. I'm a fluffer now!

Honk Lother said...

Hey 9/11/09 10:12 PM,

I may have a job for you ;)

Anonymous said...

I am the 400th comment!!! Yeah!!!

«Oldest ‹Older   201 – 400 of 890   Newer› Newest»